Switching to FWD... Acceptable?

"Bryan doesn't drive a 1M" (bryantakespictures) 01/24/2017 at 11:41 • Filed to: None

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The consensus seemed to be that manual-transmission fans struggled with switching to an auto, unless they had some fun third car to get their jollies.

What about going from rear-wheel-drive to front-wheel-drive? With some occasional track and autocross in mind, how has the transition been for any of you who might have switched? If possible, separate the experience into “fun” and “performance” because in a lot of cases they are not that highly correlated.

FWD cars have gotten fantastic recently, especially when you consider the dollar-to-fun ratio and manual trans availability. The Focus ST is even known for its oversteery antics, the GTI has an LSD, the Fiesta ST must have some kind of hypnotically good steering.

I’ve transitioned from RWD to Haldex-AWD, which is basically FWD. The stability in the rain and the planted feel in corners had its charm (and safety), but I missed the excitement of RWD.

Chariotoflove > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 11:57

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Opposite direction here. After two FWD cars, I switched to a RWD sports car. Honestly, in daily driving, I see no functional difference except that the RWD car likes to slide the tail out more in the rain, which in my view is not a good thing.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 12:01

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why?

i have owned all driven wheel cars and dont get why you want FWD ever. Winter time? AWD or 4x4

Rest of the time? RWD

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 12:05

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I think I could happily go to a symmetrical AWD system without much trouble. But no way could I go back to FWD for anything other than daily driving. But in the daily driving case, its only because it doesnt matter what drive it is for that. I probably value RWD more than a manual and many other things. Maaaaaybe I could do one of the STs, a GTI, or an older Honda but I feel like I would regret it after a while. This is assuming the vehicle would replace the current role of my Miata in backroad driving and autox use in addition to daily.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 12:08

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You can have fun in FWD. Daily duties there is no difference. You may not be as fast but there is no reason you can’t have as much fun.

Blondude > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 12:19

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FWD is fine.

tromoly > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 12:25

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I’m okay with front wheel drive, as long as it’s a BTCC car.

deekster_caddy > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/24/2017 at 12:28

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FWIW my FWD cars have always been heavy ones, and with good sway bars and good tires they have been a lot of fun to drive. ‘94 Buick Regal (3800), ‘98 Buick Riviera (supercharged 3800), my wife’s current DD - ‘08 Passat Wagon (2.0 Turbo 6 spd manual), my current DD ‘13 Volt. On both buicks I upgraded front and rear sway bars and put wider than stock wheels and tires, and they were quite enjoyable to corner with. The Volt is surprising in corners and the Passat is just an overall joy to drive. Not that any of these are track stars, but I have no problem considering them for an enthusiastic driver.

My ‘73 Buick has spent plenty of time sideways and doing donuts, drag racing etc, RWD is also very rugged and all that, but I have no major complaints with FWD, most likely because of the cars they have been in. I’ve never spent a lot of time in a Civic/Corolla/small FWD car and I can imagine without much weight over the tires they kinda suck unless you beef up to some really sticky rubber.

deekster_caddy > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 01/24/2017 at 12:31

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Winter? Who cares what drive, just get snow tires. AWD and 4x4 unnecessary unless you go offroad. The only exception to this might be that I’ve always had heavy FWD cars, so winter traction has never been an issue. I’ve driven through snow deep enough to plow with the front bumper and never had a problem. I can see where a small lightweight FWD car could suck.

interstate366, now In The Industry > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 12:33

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I have plenty of fun. But i’m also blessed with tons of back roads nearby.

nerd_racing > Chariotoflove 01/24/2017 at 12:39

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I’ve driven rwd for the past 3 years and I’ve never had it want to step out in the rain. Tires make it in both winter and summer.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > interstate366, now In The Industry 01/24/2017 at 12:42

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That’s also an exceptional FWD car...

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > tromoly 01/24/2017 at 12:42

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lifted wheels = fun

CobraJoe > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 12:44

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If you like having fun with wheels spinning (burnouts, powerslides, drifting, hard launches scrabbling for traction), then you probably won’t like FWD. Heck, I’m not a fan of AWD for that same reason.

However, that’s not to say that you can’t have fun in an FWD car. Learn to tame the understeer, and you can toss them into corners hard, and they’re usually lighter and more responsive than a performance RWD car (at least the smaller hatchbacks are). I’d say that you should get one, for a couple of years at least. It’s good to try new things to see what you really like.

CobraJoe > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 01/24/2017 at 12:48

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Lightness.

Few RWD or AWD cars can approach the lightness of a cheap FWD car. Granted, some of that is caused by smaller engines and smaller bodywork, but a tiny hatchback can often haul more than a midsized sedan, and the tiny engine can be more entertaining if it isn’t neutered and coupled to a boring transmission.  

interstate366, now In The Industry > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 12:48

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That’s true. My brother’s Civic of the same vintage is much less fun to fling around.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > deekster_caddy 01/24/2017 at 12:53

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I dont particularly see how more weight would be a good thing, if anything it should exacerbate the issues of a lighter FWD car. I could certainly see how tires, spring rates, and sway bars could make it enjoyable though. But the same thing would be said for a car with RWD. So yeah I probably could have equal fun with a modified FWD car for sure. 

deekster_caddy > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/24/2017 at 12:57

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More weight = more traction. Better launching with less wheelspin, more stable overall. I’ve whipped through many offramps/onramps with them and although you can reach a point of low traction with a heavy foot, it’s about the same point where a RWD car would be stepping out on you anyway. I think a lighter weight FWD car would have more traction issues (although might corner better). It also depends how you are driving it in general... but I’ve never had any major complaints where FWD was the limiting factor besides launching at a drag strip...

DarrenMR > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 13:09

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I owned a number (4) of (crappy) FWD cars before buying a miata. Drove it for 8 years as my daily. I have since sold it and bought a 02 supercharged MINI cooper. I aint mad.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 13:30

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I’ve never actually owned a RWD car

MPA > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 13:32

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I was a die-hard RWD rules, FWD sucks guy. And I sold a C6 to get into a Fiesta ST. It’s a blast to drive.

Chariotoflove > nerd_racing 01/24/2017 at 14:09

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Oh, I don’t mean to say it’s skittish or anything. It’s just that if I take a hard turn in the wet with some gas, the rear will slip out, and I didn’t get that from my previous FWD cars. It’s not a real problem, just something to know and pay attention to.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > MPA 01/24/2017 at 22:09

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Good to hear

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/24/2017 at 22:12

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You should try it!

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > CobraJoe 01/24/2017 at 22:16

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Good advice. I’ve never owned a fun FWD car, just transportation devices. I did have fun with them, though...

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 01/24/2017 at 22:18

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Cost, and manual availability

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/24/2017 at 22:30

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I will. I’ve driven plenty, and want ton of my own, as you never really play with other people’s toys. I wanted something RWD last time I was car shopping but ended up with AWD instead. At least it wasn’t another FWD economy box.

CobraJoe > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/25/2017 at 09:47

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It doesn’t even take that much to make a fun FWD car. I had a Protege5 for a while, and it wasn’t that powerful or that light, but the engine responded eagerly and it had decent gearing in the manual trans, so you’d be revving and shifting and shifting... and then you’d hit 45mph.

Though I did get tired of fixing “ricer” aftermarket parts and the understeer was depressing, so it got replaced with something else. Thouhg it taught me that I love hatchbacks and that low HP isn’t bad when paired with low weight.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > CobraJoe 01/25/2017 at 10:39

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So a Mazda3 hatch is pretty much the successor to that, right? It does look fun...

CobraJoe > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/25/2017 at 10:44

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Yup, pretty much the direct successor to it, though I’ve read that it’s not quite as sharp handling as the Protege.

Ya know... You can find any number of Proteges for under $2k... wouldn’t be a bad price for a second car to keep for a year or so...

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > CobraJoe 01/25/2017 at 13:07

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uh Miata is lighter than most FWD cars... If im hauling something i have a truck. no need to jam it into a car

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > deekster_caddy 01/25/2017 at 13:09

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I have had winter tires once. On an AWD tuned DSM. My truck has all seasons and it goes through snow better than anything ive owned (when im not drifting on purpose)

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 01/25/2017 at 13:09

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Plenty of cheap RWD AWD and 4x4. All in manual if you look for 5 min

CobraJoe > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 01/25/2017 at 13:22

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Miata is one of the few that can approach the lightness of a cheap FWD car, but even it a lot heavier than something like a Festiva, and the Festiva still has a ton more interior space.

And it’s great that you have a truck for hauling stuff, not everyone does. Personally, I’d rather have a small and fun hatchback or wagon for a daily driver and a more interesting vehicle as a project than a truck using up one of my garage spaces.  

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > CobraJoe 01/26/2017 at 00:02

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Well I have a Miata and a 1 ton powerstroke. And working on a RX7. And Miata has infinite interior space. No roof :)

deekster_caddy > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 01/26/2017 at 12:43

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A 4WD truck will definitely help you go. I’m very familiar with them. But winter tires will help you turn and stop. It’s easy to go through snow, it’s much harder to get things back in control when there’s a slippery surprise and winter tires make the best of that situation no matter how many wheels you are driving.

As far as why people would want FWD? The fewer wheels you are driving the better your economy becomes. AWD and 4WD systems add cost, weight and more moving parts, costing you MPG from the additions. FWD over RWD? You get what you get... and make the best of it. I like my RWD cars and trucks, but have no major complaints about my FWD ones either.